IRV -- Aspen Reconsiders on November 3 (Don't Forget to Vote)
October 14
DON’T FORGET THAT 61 CENTS POSTAGE IS REQUIRED ON YOUR RETURN BALLOT
Aspen voters will tell City Hall how they feel about continuing to use the IRV method for municipal elected office, which was used for the first time in May.
Whether or not you liked the outcome, you probably have views on the methodology. Did you understand it? Do you know whether yours was one of the 17% of the ballots not counted in the Council race runoff?
This site will be used to collect information and opinions regarding IRV and the upcoming advisory vote in November’s mail in ballot election. DON’T FORGET THAT 61 CENTS POSTAGE IS REQUIRED ON YOUR RETURN BALLOT. (that information is not on the ballot.)
October 14th Aspen Times has two columns expressing views on IRV. Please share your opinions. We encourage you to identify yourself and avoid screen names which can lead to irresponsible on line comments, which will be deleted. We’re happy for spirited, even controversial discussions. But we will insist that the comments remain on topic and avoid personal attacks.
Andy Stone: A Stone's Throw
My uncle Irv messed up Aspen's elections
Andy Stone
Wednesday, October 14, 2009 Aspen Times
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20091014/COLUMN/910139980/1021/NONE&parentprofile=1061
Feel free to post comments, as I've posted mine below.
The Red Ant information below has all the data on the litigation Andy references:
Su Lum: Slumming
Time for November election endorsements
The Aspen Times
Aspen, CO Colorado
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20091014/COLUMN/910139979/1021/NONE&parentprofile=1061
Feel free to post your comments (with your name please) below as I've posted mine.
You Tube IRV!
Don't feel that you know enough about IRV? See some of these just produced videos, which are actually totally fun to watch.See entry on IRV YouTube below.
Reader Comments (5)
My response to Andy Stone:
ANDY says--"The exact reasoning behind her demand seems a little obscure. Does she want the ballots? Does she want the scanned images of the ballots? Is she checking the runoff system? Is she checking the counting system? Is she checking privacy protection? Or, maybe even, is she checking the results?"
MARILYN says--While I'd like to have the ballots reviewed as an audit step, that is not what I am seeking. I am seeking the intermediate record of the CD of the ballot images as stated in the litigation. The ballot images are needed to review all the things you suggest above. No one isolated purpose.
ANDY Says--"She consistently says she has no desire to overturn the election, but her lawsuit claims there were some serious problems with the process and that some of these problems were concealed from the public until after the date for protesting the results had passed. That sounds like someone laying the groundwork for a protest."
MARILYN says--It may sound that way to those who haven't read the facts, but the deadline for a legal contest was May 22nd. I knew the issues then, and chose to work toward an audit with long term improvement recommendations. If I wanted to contest the outcome, I had my fair chance. No reason to try to do it long after the law allows. I fear the Andy has bought into some of Mick's false claims that this is about a "recount."
ANDY says, "But, what the heck, I'm going to take Marilyn at her word."
MARILYN says,-- Thanks, Andy. MIght as well since the law wouldn't allow me to contest the election if I tried."
ANDY says, “But runoffs have their own set of problems.
There's the expense, of course. Elections aren't cheap.”
MARILYN says, “Election quality is about the worst place I can think of for making government cuts. Besdies IRV cost us more than the traditional run off. But low costs should not be a measure of election quality. "
ANDY says, “Then there's fatigue — both candidate and voter fatigue. Good candidates can burn out when they're required to run a second all-out campaign, right after the first one ends.”
MARILYN says, “If a candidate can’t take another month of focused campaigning with the voters, then they aren’t tough enough and dedicated enough for public office.”
ANDY says, “More important, of course, voters get burned out and turned off. People stop paying attention. They tune out. They don't bother to vote the second time around. In the end, that can favor a highly motivated minority, voters who care fiercely but don't represent a true majority of the citizens.”
MARILYN says, “Two problems with that Andy. The "burnout” for the run off portion of the May election was the worst ever, I believe. 17% of the voters didn’t turn out for the run off in the Torre/Behrendt race. And almost that many were “no shows” in the Johnson/Johnson race. They were standing in the voting booth and "no showed/burned out" before they finished marking the ballot.
Additionally, even Mick says that the great number of candidates and the short campaign didn’t allow even him, who knows all the candidates to get to hear enough about their positions. Finally, a place that Mick and I agree. I also knew all the candidates and still couldn’t learn enough about their positions. We had 13 candidates (CC + mayor) to learn about and rank. Very few voters can do that.”
ANDY Says: “And, perhaps, some motivation to fine-tune the IRV system before the next election. Even as we remember that nothing is perfect.”
MARILYN Says, “IRV will take a lot more than fine tuning to even become legal in Aspen before the next election. I’d say that is far from perfect.”